the pope conspiracy
So, Pope Francis is a pretty cool dude, eh?
Pope Francis on homosexuality:
“If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him? … The problem is not having this tendency, no, we must be brothers and sisters to one another. The problem is in making a lobby of this tendency: a lobby of misers, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of masons, so many lobbies.”
Pope Francis on proselytizing:
“Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”
Pope Francis on evolution:
“Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”
All this leads me to wonder. Did the Catholic church understand what they were getting themselves into when they signed off on this guy becoming the next pope? I think, YES, they did. Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pope Francis’ appointment was a conspiracy to transition the Catholic church to a more liberal worldview, thereby allowing the Catholic faith to stay strong and convert new believers in this modern day.
Whether it is truly a conspiracy or not, I don’t pretend to know. But I suspect it very well could be. Either way, I like the guy. Pope Francis seems super down to earth, honest, friendly, and a real champion of the poor and the downtrodden. I’d sit down to coffee with him and discuss the state of the world. (Yes, that’s right. If any of his secretaries or assistants are reading this right now, I will accept an invitation to a sit-down with his holiness and dudeliness, the Pope.)
What do you think about the controversial statements being made by Pope Francis?
73 comments on “the pope conspiracy”
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The Honking Goose 
It’s so puzzling to me, as a practicing Catholic, why the media acts as though these things are OMG *new* *amazing* *incredible.* All the above Pope Francis quotes are exactly what the Catholic Church has always and will always teach. There’s no discontinuity between what he’s saying and what Pope Benedict XVI or JP II or any other pope taught. So why the notion that this all new?
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I don’t know that much about the Catholic Church, I admit. Have their been other popes that accepted evolution?
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I think it’s more accurate to say there’s never been any rejection of evolution. Probably the first formal theological statement by the Church stating that there’s no conflict between evolution and Christianity would be in 1950 by Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical Humani Generis.
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Hmm, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! 🙂
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I wouldn’t say it is a conspiracy, but I do think the strategy is deliberate, One of the weaknesses of many religions is their inability to adapt to changing times and values, but also the extreme judgmental attitude that goes along with it. Jesus was not big on judging “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, he is about peacefulness, “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”, and forgiveness, “forgive others rather than judge others”. So do catholics want more followers, probably, but if they gain them at the hands of someone who is progressive on scientific issues, someone who believes in being kind to others even if you don’t agree with them, and who believes that the best way to convert someone to your way of thinking is by doing good works and listening, then that doesn’t sound like such a bad philosophy to follow. Obviously catholicism has plenty of hurdles still to cross, but at least they have the self-reflective to see when a philosophy isn’t working then they themselves are changing rather than expecting others to change.
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I’m not saying anyone conspired to commit an illegal act. I’m talking about the kind of conspiracy that is several people plotting and planning deliberately with a mutual goal in mind. I think it is plausible that is what happened. I’m not saying that is bad either. Just that it might be factually accurate. Might be.
If Jesus really did live and do all those things, he was a cool dude too. I have respect for anyone that tries to emulate those actions.
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Sorry… Usually when anyone uses conspiracy in this country it has a note nefarious connotation to it. Lol
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😀
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They aren’t exactly controversial. They are actually perfectly in line with what Jesus said. Except for the evolution thing. That wasn’t exactly a matter in Jesus’ time and day. Jesus probably had gay friends, and Romans, and Syrians. He spent the first few years of his Life in Egypt, and he was probably well educated, a man of the world. Of course, this is conjecture, based on how the world worked in the Roman Empire.
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Well, in my understanding his words have created controversy within the Catholic Church. That is pretty understandable, given it’s history. And a religious leader who attempts to truly live by the words and actions of Jesus, well that is pretty radical, too.
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My point is, that Jesus was not a radical. Jesus preached compassion and moderation. His end was radical, but that wasn’t his fault. Following in his path should be anything else than radical.
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I have been pleasantly surprised by what Pope Francis has been saying. I hope that his words become policy or whatever it’s called. I was raised Catholic, I’m what they call a lapsed Catholic, actually I’m an agnostic. I’m not a fan of organised religion, but I think everyone has the right to do what they want spiritualy. I think I mis-spelled a lot of words here, for some reason WP doesn’t have a spell-checker when I do comments.
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When I talk to my husband about it, he always says that I’m a deist. I’m not sure what that means, but I think that’s what I am. 😀
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Thank you, I’m very flattered. I’m happy to hear you are enjoying the Honking Goose. 🙂
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You are wellcome 😀
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The Catholic Church must change or it will wither. It has been seriously damaged by all the revelations of scandal and has lost its ability to speak as a moral authority. Therefore it needs a new direction and this Pope is ably providing it. I don’t see any actual changes in policy or practice so far, only words. But they are encouraging words. As soon as I learned he was taking the name “Francis,” I had hope.
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“In the beginning, there was the word” 😀
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I think – finally! I was brought up in Catholic faith, went to church every Sunday and so on, so on. I am also Polish and was told when I was very little that John Paul the Second was a saint. Until now I treat the guy with a devotion, even tho I stopped going to church, and only a couple of years back I discovered that John Paul was a very conservative dude.
I think Catholic church is a mafia, but on the other hand, I think it is good that it is trying to change. It needs a liberal pope, who would lead the young generation, and maybe it will change to the better.
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It is good for the continuation and relevance of the religion if it is trying to change/does change. However, if Catholicism became entirely irrelevant it wouldn’t bother me at all.
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Would it be regular, decaf, or something laced with a bit of spirits?
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Certainly regular. 😉
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I don’t think he’s said anything that’s radical or controversial. What he has definitely done is remind to work towards a unifying and loving body of Christ. The church still holds homosexuality as sin, that didn’t change. I’m ignorant on the other two topics, I won’t pretend to know what I’m talking about. But what this Pope definitely has done differently is just preach love and acceptance, we as humans can’t judge one another. John 8:1-11. We’re all sinners.
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I would argue that love and acceptance are pretty radical and controversial these days. 🙂
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I didn’t hear him say anything radical yet. Maybe the questions he was asked were never asked before.
I think he is simply being a Christian.
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You don’t think that acknowledging evolution is radical for a Catholic? I thought it was.
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He says that he believes in an original creator. If certain things (could be plants, animals) evolve then this isn’t a crime.
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People have been persecuted for spreading ideas about science that conflict with the tenets of the Catholic Church.
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Those were radicals then. 🙂 This man is completely normal.
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Okay, okay, if you say so. 🙂
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🙂 I do be amazed at the attention given to the popes and not the Christ himself. It doesn’t matter to me what a pope says, good or bad. He’s just flesh and bones like the rest of us. Some get it wrong, some get it right. I do find the Holy Trinity fascinating though.
Especially the Holy Spirit. But that’s off topic 🙂
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Evolution was radical only to the hierarchy.
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I agree entirely and if you get the invite, can I join you?!
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I hate to break it to you, but the chance of that really happening is pretty slim. 😉
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😀
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He certainly talks a good game. He also seems to truly walk the walk. I predicted that he would take the name of Francis and usher in a new era for Catholicism.
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I’m normally not a big fan of organized religion. But I can’t help but like him. What I have heard about him, anyway.
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Me neither, but I support anyone in a leadership position who practices humility and tolerance.:)
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Hell yeah!
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As a former christian (though never catholic), I always think it’s very encouraging to see someone with progressive views in a position of religious power, whether they’re a pastor or priest or the pope.
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It seems pretty out of the ordinary though. I’m still surprised by the things I hear about Pope Francis.
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I am encouraged by this movement toward a more liberal Catholic Church. It may be a conspiracy, and if its goal is to appease lapsed Catholics like me, it may work. It’s nice not to be disgusted by something I will technically always belong to.
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Well, the more people not disgusted by it, the stronger the Church will become. And I think that is very much the goal.
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I posted something about him just the other day (I believe on my blogs Facebook page) and his view on evolution vs creationism. I like him. (not that I’m Catholic) I like Pope John Paul too. It was the one in the middle I couldn’t get connect with.
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His comments essentially accepting evolution just blew me away. I was like, “WHAT?!” Then I knew it was a conspiracy for sure. 😉
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I could possibly see it being a conspiracy, but I honestly doubt that. I mean, even if it is, there’s a lot that makes it clear the Pope is a genuinely superb guy anyway. Like when that kid just wanted to hang out with him despite the cardinals or whatever trying to shoo him away and the Pope was totally cool with the child. Or when the cardinals or whatever tried to put on an opera for the Pope and he just didn’t show up because he was like, “Seriously? There’s work to be done, I don’t have time for an opera!”
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Do you not think that the Catholic church would go to great lengths to remain relevant in this day and age? I think they knew exactly what and why they were doing by choosing him.
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I’m pretty sure there has been some discontent with some of the things the Pope has said.
But maybe I’m wrong? I don’t keep up super well with what other religions are doing. In any case, it could well be somewhere on the spectrum of picking him on purpose for that reason. I don’t know. Maybe I assume it’s not ’cause that’s not how my own religion does things =P
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Naturally there is a lot of discontent over some of the things he is saying. But I don’t think that excludes the idea that he was purposely chosen with the knowledge that he would play that role. Anyway, I really have no idea, it is all pure speculation on my part.
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I like him. I wish he’d be more compassionate towards women’s autonomy but he’s an interesting guy.
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I choose not to include his statements about abortion because they are not liberal views. The issue is so complex and multifaceted, I can see and understand more than just two sides to that debate.
Is that what you meant by ‘women’s autonomy’? Or are there other ideas he has related to women that I’m not aware of?
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Yes,and I agree with you on that score. I tend to look at things in terms of polarities but I wish that there could be some equanimity and compassion shown. I think that about a lot of things and more of them as time goes on and I evolve my positions on things.
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I love it! It was about time and I hope the keep opening up!
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I might rather Catholicism became outmoded and outdated instead, but I admire and respect Pope Francis as a person and I think he is worthy of emulation.
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That which does not change with the changing times will become extinct. The Church probably realized this, and has chosen a liberal minded man, who also happens to be a monk. Francis is Human(e) first, and Pope next and allowed to be so by the Church for its own relevance in a changing world. It’s really a very positive development.
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I don’t know if see it as positive. I think overall it may have been a net benefit to mankind if Catholicism would decline and fade away. But certainly the heads of that religion don’t want to see that happen.
At the same time, I can’t help but admire and respect Pope Francis as an individual.
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For that matter all organized religion should go. They are nothing but political institutions. But they will never go. Because majority of the population, since the time of recorded history to till date, needs a community with a leader to cater to their spiritual needs. So, the development in the church with reference to the appointment of Pope Francis is surely in the right spirit. For a change, the church is following the people.
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Interesting. I can see your point. I’m going to put that in the old brain and mull it over. Thanks for really making me think. 😀
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Pope Francis is a man of God. He is one of those religious leaders that come to the fore now and again to change the society in which we live. He not only speaks the words of Christ but practically tries to carry out his message in a meaningful way. Christ never turned away those whom society called sinners but, instead, socialised and communicated with them without condemnation. Pope Francis does the same and I admire him for that. He knows like I do that there are none who can cast the first stone
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It is still out of the ordinary and surprising, but certainly very admirable.
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Given the thought and process behind picking a new pontiff, I believe that the church knew exactly what they were getting with this guy, and I think it is the right choice. Given the strife and discord in the world that is rooted in religious intolerance, the Catholic church has seemingly made a conscious effort not to walk that path, and I do think that it is a legitimate effort to make changes, simply because the Pope’s statements are too grand and too challenging of tradition to be a mere run at converting new followers. I do also think that this new outlook is a way of bringing BACK people who were raised Catholic and might have strayed from the church because of disagreements on such things as evolution, homosexuality, and so on. Ancient ideals are wonderful to learn about and take lessons from, but as times change, so must something as large as the church, and I think that’s what they’re doing, and pretty well.
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Legitimate effort – conspiracy. You say tomato, I say tom-ah-to. We agree, the new Pope’s appointment is definitely a tomato.
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Oh, there is absolutely no question that it is a Love-Apple.
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I think it is damn time that we had a Christian for pope.
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I’m tempted to agree with you, but then again, as a pagan dirt-worshiper myself, it’s not really any of my business.
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I’m a lapsed Catholic. While I’ll never go back, it is nice to see positive attitudes.
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I certainly agree.
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Same here. I feel like my own belief system doesn’t ‘jive’ with the Catholic church anymore, but seeing an evolution on what could have been said was a stodgy old ideology certainly is nice.
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AMEN!
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His statements tell me that he picks and chooses what he wants to believe from the Bible.
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When you say ‘the Bible’ are you referring to the Old Testament or the New Testament, or both?
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As do we all.
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I don’t pretend to be a biblical scholar in any way, shape, or form, but I’d guess that the pope is less ‘picking and choosing’ and more like ‘interpreting differently.’ His, and indeed the modern catholic church could be looking at the same words in new lights. This isn’t anything new either, considering so many different sects of Christianity look at exactly the same set of texts, yet have such a diversity in their ecclesiastical canons. You may have one church damning homosexuality based on what they read in Chapter 6, and the other church across the street opening and accepting the homosexual community based on what they read in Chapter 12. The bible and its teachings are what we make of them. In truth, it is no different than the multitude of interpretations of the Islamic term ‘jihad’ – one group interprets it as a struggle to better oneself in the service of God, the other interprets it as a struggle to convert non-believers.
I believe that the Pope’s more liberal outlook on such pressing social matters these days are still perfectly in line with some of the more base teachings of the bible, but again, my own knowledge of biblical studies is limited.
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